Comments on: Follow Up on Organic Minutes http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/ POSTS ALERTS REGARDING TRS & ITS RELATED ISSUES Thu, 22 Dec 2011 19:46:47 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Terpgirl http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-69170 Terpgirl Wed, 01 Jul 2009 05:46:40 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-69170 Deer rp, Yes, I am going to RID, but only for one meeting on Monday. I only live a couple of hours away, and I cannot attend anything else. You may write to me and sitcomkid@comcast.net. If you prefer telephone, slip me your number. Deer rp,

Yes, I am going to RID, but only for one meeting on Monday. I only live a couple of hours away, and I cannot attend anything else. You may write to me and sitcomkid@comcast.net. If you prefer telephone, slip me your number.

]]> By: rp http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-68161 rp Wed, 03 Jun 2009 14:49:29 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-68161 Terpgirl, Are you going to be in Philadelphia for RID? If so, I would like to meet you. Like you, I'm a terp working in the industry, and there are a few things I'd like to hear you views on. Terpgirl,

Are you going to be in Philadelphia for RID? If so, I would like to meet you. Like you, I’m a terp working in the industry, and there are a few things I’d like to hear you views on.

]]> By: Terpgirl http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-66337 Terpgirl Wed, 06 May 2009 06:09:50 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-66337 In my mind, there are at least two different categories of manufactured minutes. (And yes, I agree, Todd is a genius for coming up with that phrase!) As an interpreter, I'm not crazy about either one. The number one thing that I think should be so illegal as to deserve criminal prosecution for setting up this business practice in their company is the one with kickbacks. If you are paying people a portion of your profit to call in and create these manufactured minutes, you are guilty of fraud against the United States government. I may be wrong, but I believe that it is a felony. If this is the only way you can afford to run your business, you either need to take a look at your business practices, or cry to the FCC that you need more money (I doubt they will give it to you, but I understand that at the end of the year, if you went in the hole doing any kind of relay, the government will give you some money to make up for it. That is where the term "reimbursement" comes from, that nobody should have to operate at a loss in order to provide access to the telephone system. If I'm wrong, please correct me.) The reason that this is allowed to go on unchecked is that unlike with TTY relay, the state public utilities commission is not monitoring the business practices of the various VRS providers. If they're not paying for it, they're certainly not going to monitor it. The FCC doesn't do such monitoring, and for TTY, that doesn't really matter. It is already being monitored by the states. I doubt that the FCC, or any part of the federal government, has the time or the funding to do any more than the occasional visits that we already get at video relay. Besides, friends of mine who have worked at the kickback centers (and then quit, out of frustration) have told me that when the FCC is visiting, their supervisors tell them to terminate those calls. The FCC tends to be complaint-driven. Who is going to complain about getting kickbacks? Nobody! So the kickback minutes go on for as long as the provider deems them to be financially necessary, usually to help a new provider who is having a hard time paying for interpreters to just sit there during the low call volumes at the beginning of their business. The other kind of manufactured minutes are what I call TCB minutes, meaning minutes for taking care of business. (And by the way, whoever thought of the idea of all the Deaf and hard-of-hearing people who want to attend a certain conference call setting up some kind of a technology where they all share one interpreter station is very smart. Was that you, Ed?) Although TCB minutes do not involve kickbacks paid to callers for fake calls, they take legitimate calls and feed money into the company's own pocket just for running its own business. I know that these companies have a lot of Deaf employees and are sometimes owned by Deaf people. Some wonderful employment opportunities have come along, and interpreters are not the only people enjoying them. Naturally, people will place calls to other people to do business throughout the day, and most people prefer to use their own video relay company when doing so. So where do we draw the line? I have worked in places that use more than half the working VI staff at any given time for conference calls, while making the people who want to make a nonconference call form a queue, and overworking the interpreters and sending us to an early grave. They also did a lot of telemarketing from within their offices out to the hearing community, and they had a messaging service that they used us for as well. They loved clogging up their own system! I quit that job. Where I work now, the calls seem to be quite legitimate. The manufactured minutes, I wouldn't miss if they never came in again. As for calling in to telecourses and the like, yes, I want to provide equal access to what a hearing person would get, but at the same time, I think that the interpreters are very overworked in this field and that may contribute to the dislike you have heard about, so I guess I have mixed feelings on that one. Some of these services are being read from a script, so they can be maddeningly fast to keep up with and still provide something good in the interpretation. Others are more natural conversations, which are the types of things interpreters are used to handling outside of VRS. It does seem like something where you should use VRI because they are set up for it. Then again, hearing people can do it. I would say that it's fair to do it as long as you really wanted to make that call, and you're not just doing it to ramp up the minutes. In my mind, there are at least two different categories of manufactured minutes. (And yes, I agree, Todd is a genius for coming up with that phrase!) As an interpreter, I’m not crazy about either one. The number one thing that I think should be so illegal as to deserve criminal prosecution for setting up this business practice in their company is the one with kickbacks. If you are paying people a portion of your profit to call in and create these manufactured minutes, you are guilty of fraud against the United States government. I may be wrong, but I believe that it is a felony. If this is the only way you can afford to run your business, you either need to take a look at your business practices, or cry to the FCC that you need more money (I doubt they will give it to you, but I understand that at the end of the year, if you went in the hole doing any kind of relay, the government will give you some money to make up for it. That is where the term “reimbursement” comes from, that nobody should have to operate at a loss in order to provide access to the telephone system. If I’m wrong, please correct me.) The reason that this is allowed to go on unchecked is that unlike with TTY relay, the state public utilities commission is not monitoring the business practices of the various VRS providers. If they’re not paying for it, they’re certainly not going to monitor it. The FCC doesn’t do such monitoring, and for TTY, that doesn’t really matter. It is already being monitored by the states. I doubt that the FCC, or any part of the federal government, has the time or the funding to do any more than the occasional visits that we already get at video relay. Besides, friends of mine who have worked at the kickback centers (and then quit, out of frustration) have told me that when the FCC is visiting, their supervisors tell them to terminate those calls. The FCC tends to be complaint-driven. Who is going to complain about getting kickbacks? Nobody! So the kickback minutes go on for as long as the provider deems them to be financially necessary, usually to help a new provider who is having a hard time paying for interpreters to just sit there during the low call volumes at the beginning of their business. The other kind of manufactured minutes are what I call TCB minutes, meaning minutes for taking care of business. (And by the way, whoever thought of the idea of all the Deaf and hard-of-hearing people who want to attend a certain conference call setting up some kind of a technology where they all share one interpreter station is very smart. Was that you, Ed?) Although TCB minutes do not involve kickbacks paid to callers for fake calls, they take legitimate calls and feed money into the company’s own pocket just for running its own business. I know that these companies have a lot of Deaf employees and are sometimes owned by Deaf people. Some wonderful employment opportunities have come along, and interpreters are not the only people enjoying them. Naturally, people will place calls to other people to do business throughout the day, and most people prefer to use their own video relay company when doing so. So where do we draw the line? I have worked in places that use more than half the working VI staff at any given time for conference calls, while making the people who want to make a nonconference call form a queue, and overworking the interpreters and sending us to an early grave. They also did a lot of telemarketing from within their offices out to the hearing community, and they had a messaging service that they used us for as well. They loved clogging up their own system! I quit that job. Where I work now, the calls seem to be quite legitimate. The manufactured minutes, I wouldn’t miss if they never came in again. As for calling in to telecourses and the like, yes, I want to provide equal access to what a hearing person would get, but at the same time, I think that the interpreters are very overworked in this field and that may contribute to the dislike you have heard about, so I guess I have mixed feelings on that one. Some of these services are being read from a script, so they can be maddeningly fast to keep up with and still provide something good in the interpretation. Others are more natural conversations, which are the types of things interpreters are used to handling outside of VRS. It does seem like something where you should use VRI because they are set up for it. Then again, hearing people can do it. I would say that it’s fair to do it as long as you really wanted to make that call, and you’re not just doing it to ramp up the minutes.

]]> By: edsalert http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-66007 edsalert Sat, 02 May 2009 12:43:19 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-66007 Jeff, Good to see you commenting again. I think the FCC will deem it suspicious if organizer and VRS work together; even if organizer does not get paid. Better if they do not work together. If organizer decides to publish phone-in service on their own and without any agreements with any VRS providers - then that is probably ok. Tough to keep eye on I know. eyes open & thumbs up, Jeff,

Good to see you commenting again. I think the FCC will deem it suspicious if organizer and VRS work together; even if organizer does not get paid. Better if they do not work together. If organizer decides to publish phone-in service on their own and without any agreements with any VRS providers – then that is probably ok. Tough to keep eye on I know.

eyes open & thumbs up,

]]> By: Jeff McWhinney http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-65944 Jeff McWhinney Fri, 01 May 2009 17:26:00 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-65944 Oops - just noticed the reference 'Follow up' so have located the original article - (hangs head in shame!) ;) Jeff Oops – just noticed the reference ‘Follow up’ so have located the original article – (hangs head in shame!) ;)

Jeff

]]> By: Jeff McWhinney http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-65943 Jeff McWhinney Fri, 01 May 2009 17:22:46 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-65943 Hey Ed! As great as ever your insights are - I always enjoy reading these. Now I know that there is the technology available to host 'one to many' video calls and it would be more ethical if an organiser works with a VRS provider to provide this service so people calling in can all share the same interpreter(s) which is more efficient and effective than having a whole team tied up with the same call interface..... However I agree with the comment that VRS providers should NOT actively market these events - it is up to the organisers! I could not find the connection to Todd and Christian - can you refer me to these please by posting a link? Many thanks. Jeff Hey Ed!
As great as ever your insights are – I always enjoy reading these. Now I know that there is the technology available to host ‘one to many’ video calls and it would be more ethical if an organiser works with a VRS provider to provide this service so people calling in can all share the same interpreter(s) which is more efficient and effective than having a whole team tied up with the same call interface…..

However I agree with the comment that VRS providers should NOT actively market these events – it is up to the organisers!

I could not find the connection to Todd and Christian – can you refer me to these please by posting a link? Many thanks.

Jeff

]]> By: edsalert http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-65924 edsalert Fri, 01 May 2009 11:26:18 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-65924 Anonymous, You are right. None of them admitted any practices that may not be ethical, but as you implied that deaf/hoh can tell which is which. On your last question. I wondered about that, too. It seems they will be held liable if FBI gets wind of that. I am beginning to wonder perhaps FCC does not have jursdiction over that. The "intent" to stage fraud seems to fall under FBI. eyes open & thumbs up, Ed Anonymous,

You are right. None of them admitted any practices that may not be ethical, but as you implied that deaf/hoh can tell which is which.

On your last question. I wondered about that, too. It seems they will be held liable if FBI gets wind of that. I am beginning to wonder perhaps FCC does not have jursdiction over that. The “intent” to stage fraud seems to fall under FBI.

eyes open & thumbs up,

Ed

]]> By: edsalert http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-65922 edsalert Fri, 01 May 2009 11:20:18 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-65922 Tammy, I have received quite a few emails not unlike your email. Not only csdvrs, but a few others as well. Hopefully this edsalert will alert VRS industry that deaf/hoh are smart enough to spot manufactured minutes. Ed Tammy,

I have received quite a few emails not unlike your email. Not only csdvrs, but a few others as well. Hopefully this edsalert will alert VRS industry that deaf/hoh are smart enough to spot manufactured minutes.

Ed

]]> By: anonymous http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-65896 anonymous Fri, 01 May 2009 02:59:29 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-65896 which companies were the ethical ones that you talked to? were there any VRS providers who admitted to these practices? i would think not. But, we all know many of the providers are engaged in ramping up minutes. What about the deaf employees/contractors who are being paid to make calls? Could they be held liable? which companies were the ethical ones that you talked to? were there any VRS providers who admitted to these practices? i would think not. But, we all know many of the providers are engaged in ramping up minutes. What about the deaf employees/contractors who are being paid to make calls? Could they be held liable?

]]> By: Tammy Joyce http://www.edsalert.com/2009/04/30/follow-up-on-organic-minutes/comment-page-1/#comment-65885 Tammy Joyce Fri, 01 May 2009 00:49:13 +0000 http://www.edsalert.com/?p=905#comment-65885 All VRS Providers use manufactured VRS minutes. They are out to build many minutes as much as they can. I think FCC needs to hire auditors to check around VRS's system to make sure all are following FCC's rules. other example is when I used to call help.csdvrs.tv, It will go to point to point deaf/hh tech suppt. Now, I dialed help.csdvrs.tv and it went to VI? WHY? build up some mintues? All VRS Providers use manufactured VRS minutes. They are out to build many minutes as much as they can. I think FCC needs to hire auditors to check around VRS’s system to make sure all are following FCC’s rules. other example is when I used to call help.csdvrs.tv, It will go to point to point deaf/hh tech suppt. Now, I dialed help.csdvrs.tv and it went to VI? WHY? build up some mintues?

]]>