FBI Warrants and Warning
8 07 2009All.
FBI has issued affidavits showing support of search warrants, etc. They are public information.
Folks, it is very important to understand that although warrants have been issued, in the court of law, person/company/etc are presumed innocent until proved guilty from due process of courts.
And the following link from one of Edsalert commentators on warning of IP Relay fraud. Thanks..
sorrowful eyes closed and thumbs horizional,
Ed
Shocking! I want to say this is not true but FBI Agents did a thoroughly job identifying the fraud. I’m so upset our tax money was being used and now, I’m worry that FCC or Congress will take a quick actions on VRS without understanding how VRS is important to the deaf/hh community.
I would love to say “Please tell me this is not true”. However, like Ed said, we have to be mindful that person/company/etc are presumed innocent until proved guilty.
It’s about time! Glad to see that the TRS providers are being monitored. Hopefully, they’re investigating the the kind of unethical behaviors Ed Bosson shared in his letter to Copps.
I hope that one of the fall out results is that the trust between the Deaf community and interpreters is not broken because of this. I know and have talked to several interpreters who have expressed the same concerns that those who are mentioned in the warrants stated. My only fear is that the Deaf community will not want to use VRS because of the suspect that if the interpreter doesn’t like what I said or what I did they will tell the feds.
I think this situation is different and I hope this is what will be understood in the coming flood of comments, rumors, complaints, etc…
The interpreters were not reporting the content of independent, unassociated caller’s conversations. The conversations callers, I read to understand, they were reporting were of the internal practices and perceived possible illegal scheme of the provider, call center, operations, whatever you want to call them. The caller was not independent of the scheme, they were part of and complicit, it appears, to the scheme. In essence the caller was part of the internal practice.
I think it would be different story all together if the callers were unrelated to the practices of the provider, call center, et al., and then their calls were reported. That would be an altogether different thing, one that I for one would have a real concern about, hopefully others would as well.
There are too many occurrences of improper behaviors within the VRS industry and clients, especially hearing scammers. Real glad to see the FBI taking up interests in the VRS industry.
I still do not get any VP devices at all. If someone deaf want to do anything illegal, then hire out someone hearing privately, instead of using the VRS. Or
getting the private secretary or someone to confide with.
RLM
Ed,
Would y please kindly post Ed Blossom’s letter to Copps as Lawerence J. Brick mentioned on his comment log?
RLM
FCC and others have been aware this has been going on for quite a while. But being aware and doing something are not the same thing. Various pressures come into play to stop those who want to blow the whistle or who want to actually do something.
Now looks like finally the pressures have changed and something may be done. All to the good. VRS is damn important and needs to continue. Fraudulent use puts it in danger. Keep it honest and keep it going.
Wow. This is pretty serious.
Quite frankly, I do have to say that the trust between the Deaf Community and the interpreters has been damaged. This only justifies people’s concerns that way too many interpreters in the community are self-serving.
This is very sad news… but I do hope things will be cleaned up. This hurts everyone, not just the interpreters.
Whoa! Lets not blame the interpreters. Yes, some of them got caught in unethical situations. But they have their interpter ethics to consider. They interpret and stay out of everything else – if something illegal is going on then it is the responsibility of the parties involved and not the interpreter to do something about it.
Similar to lawyers – of which I am one – to whom you can tell just about anything without having to worry about the lawyer passing it on.
Here we have interpreters putting their necks out but not breaking any interpreter ethics – they are reporting on the process not on the interpreting itself.
And do note that the fraudsters were for the most part using people who were not interpreters at all and who were doing absolutely no interpreting.
Do remember that there are many legitimate VRS calls and that Deafies value the service.
Bash the fraudsters not the interpreters!
I agree with Henry — this situation have nothing to do with the damage between the deaf community and interpreters. The damage has been done before this — this is another subject.
However, the damage may be between the deaf community and VRS company (or companies). Or it’s between the deaf community and the contractors (interpreting companies) doing for VRS providers. At end of the day, the deaf community will wonder who to believe or trust.
The VRS companies have long made interpreters feel that they could not do anything to stop the fraudulent schemes to run up their minutes. They have forced interpreters to keep quiet and take part in stealing from the government for a long time now. I’m afraid that this is just the tip of the iceberg……. Interpreters finally got the right information to the right authorities so that something could be done. Many of us are proud of our fellow professionals in the field. I hope this is a wake up call to the rest of those VRS companies out there engaging in unethical and illegal call schemes.
This is indeed VRS’ dark period. The fraudulent activities have been going on for the last three years when corporates became creative with minutes.
I can only speak for myself when it comes to the interpreters. They have not damaged any trust on my part. Try to put yourself in an interpreter’s shoe and imagine what they go through when they have to serve fraudulent calls.
When they try to speak out, the managements selfishly remind them of their code of ethics. The management strategically put interpreters in such position where they feel conflicted.
It is not about regular calls. I am confident about interpreters sticking by the code.
This is about fraudulent calls. If the deaf community wants to blame someone, it is definitely not the interpreters to blame but the corporations promoting fraudulent minutes.
My personal message to the interpreters — I do recognize you have a difficult job and you are doing your best. Thank you for all that you’ve done. And for those who came forward, thank you. It’s time the corporations stop using interpreters as a human machine for the sake of making lucrative profits.
Many interpreters are the managers of these VRS companies, so it DOES reflect on the interpreters themselves.
I would like to echo Henry’s statement….bash the fraudsters and not the interpreters. This is especially true, granted there are some bad apples in the barrel where an interpreter may want to wear the hat of a fraudster, but this in no way means that we should bash every interpreter out there.
If you see a bad cop, are you going to label the whole police force as bad? same thing applies here.
There likely has been a lot of interpreters that have seen this, but due to the code of ethics that they are sworn to uphold, they cannot necessarily report it and I would imagine that many interpreters that may have been forcefully placed in a situation like this were not comfortable with it.
Its like with the internet relay scams that have gone on over the past decade, those relay agents couldn’t really do anything about it either ya know, because of how the law and code of ethics was structured.
Bottom line is I am glad that this is being investigated, because of the simple fact that VRS will soon cost a billion dollars a year if it hasnt hit that mark already and if that continues to rise, VRS will likely become eliminated because it is too expensive.
This needs to be placed under control and and get rid of the fraudsters that only jack up these costs. To this, I say hallelujah!!!! only because I want to see VRS last forever. I hope they continue with these investigations!!!!!
Again, I am echoing Henry here….bash the fraudster and not the interpreter, those are two different hats here. I say hit the fraudsters hard and slam em in jail along with hefty fines if they are found guilty, as that is the best way to get rid of these fraudsters. But more importantly, please remember that these people are still innocent until they are proven guilty. A thoroughly conducted investigation should be able to weed out these fraudsters and prove them guilty at the end.
Ever since the ADA mandated interpreting services, the interpreting industry has been mired in greed. What is happening in VRS is just an extreme manifestation of this. Interpreters are being paid outrageous amounts; amounts they would be lucky to see half of if they were not interpreters. This forces agencies to charge their customers more, makes deaf people ever more expensive to serve and to educate and ends up just hurting deaf people. All this while the mostly hearing people running these services line their pockets.
Interpreters themselves are not innocent in this. VRS companies have lured interpreters out of the community. These interpreters willingly settle into boxes where they grow fat and corrupt and benefit nobody but themselves. In community settings, they work for the highest bidder and routinely ditch confirmed jobs in favor of other jobs that net them a few extra dollars. Unethical behavior is rampant and there is nobody doing anything about it. Few deaf people are aware. RID has no teeth. NAD is equally impotent. If you are a community interpreter, you know this to be true.
No VRS company is immune from questionable practices. The reasons are very simple: $, $$, and $$$. If you are a VI, you know this to be true.
Just one example is a VRS company that bought two leading community agencies in the DC area. The result? Community interpreting in the DC area is now in total disarray. Deaf people are going without interpreting services like never before. This is playing out all over the country.
The monkey business needs to stop. It is time for deaf people to demand regulation of the interpreting industry. The interpreting industry needs to be entirely not-for-profit. It is going to take an act of Congress to make that happen. But until that happens, we are going to keep seeing these kind of investigations.
Sadly, it is ultimately deaf people who suffer.
RLM,
Scroll back. I already posted my letter. Just a few posts back.
As for rest of commentators: yeah, I think most of us understood that it is not interpreters who are at fault. Just got caught between needing salary and ethical. Now this is out, hope this will encourage interpreters to whistleblow. Yes, I think it will be a wake-up call for VRS providers who cheat.
To RLM
Go to
“Another Well Thought Out Comment” on the top to your right of this page” . Read page 14 -15 of: USTA Comment and you’ll see USTA’s comment quoting from Ed’s letter
Also, Ed’s letter “Docketed Comment” is on the top to your right.
As a vrs terp and manager I want to say – interps who work for vrs companies have NO power or control. We are given policies we must follow or we cannot work. If company says you must allow call, then interp must allow it.
I am lucky to work for company that does NOT allow these calls. Interpreter attitudes improved when the fraud was found and stopped. Remember that NOT ALL vrs companies are involved. Some are trying to help.
Terps are stuck in the middle and sadly are the “face” on this problem. But please remember, those terps are usually not the ones making or creating these fraud calls. They are simply doing their job as their company orders them to do.
As companies are held responsible it will be good for all – deaf/hard of hearing, interpreters and the companies.
Get the unethical VRS managers, don’t blame the interpreters. Check. Interpreters are caught between a well-paid, cushy job and an unethical manager setting them up in artificially inflating the minutes. Check. Also Deaf people employed by the company to make the calls to inflate the minutes. Check.
What I wonder about is the extremely high salaries VRS interpreters are being paid. This would tend to pull the interpreters out of the community and drive up the rates in the community trying to stay competitive. The loser? The Deaf person who is turned away by businesses and services because they cannot or will not pay for the interpreters.
Money corrupts. Besides cleaning up the fraud, a rebalancing of the money seems to be in order.
To Dianrez,
You may be in a state that VRS interpreters receive very high salaries. But that is not true of every state.
Where I live and work there is only one VRS company that pays very high salaries. And their call center is full. So many interpreters work for lower rates with other VRS companies.
Also many interpreters who work for VRS also continue to work as freelance interpeters in the community. This helps them not be burnt out by overwork at VRS companies.
What I would like to see – is standard nationwide pay system for interpreters. This way interpreters do not feel they must move to places that pay more. And would help ensure that all Deaf/Hard of Hearing receive same quality of service. Now they must suffer with lowest paid interpreters because of bad economy.
It is time to put the cash cow that is VRS back in the barn. I have worked for two different VRS companies, and both engaged in manufacturing minutes. Stricter oversight from regulatory bodies and higher standards in hiring interpreters is absolutely essential if we are to protect this precious new resource from the greed that dwells in human souls. In the past few years VRS centers have multiplied like rabbits, without any regard for the fact that there are nowhere near enough qualified interpreters to staff them. As long as there was a quick buck to be made, “qualified” meant whatever the companies said it meant.
It sickens me that so many interpreters were involved in this alleged activity. Yes, we are “bound” by a code of ethics, but it does not supersede our own sense of right and wrong. Apparently some interpreters in this instance were guided by that higher sense. From the complaint all we know is that some of the interpreters apparently cooperated with the investigation. A quick computation says that 605,000 minutes over 5 months works out to approximately 4033 billable minutes a day. Having worked as a VI for six years, it is very difficult to believe that this activity was not orchestrated at a much higher level than that at which most VIs operate. If this scheme is proven in a court of law, everyone involved should be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law. If the interpreters are certified, their certifications should be pulled. The companies involved should be barred from contracting or subcontracting VRS work in the future. Prison time and steep fines are definitely in order here.
But what if the interpreters are not certified? Hiring practices at VRS companies are appallingly lax. Is it any coincidence that the recent spate of interpreter transgressions happened only after VRS companies dropped their requirements that candidates be certified and experienced? Perhaps the best thing to come out of this would be the realization that trusting companies with sole discretion in determining who is “qualified” to work as an interpreter in the incredibly complex and demanding venue of video interpreting is an unworkable premise.
I can see that interpreters are getting a lot of blame here. What about the Deafies that make and recieve these calls. They do not have any Code of Ethics to follow and yet I have not seen a Deaf person listed as a whistleblower. These people are in a unique position to do something about it without breaking any code or violating any laws but they don’t. On top of that they would be protecting the legitimacy of VRS by doing exposing these frauds yet several of them choose to allow these companies compromise something that the Deaf Community cherises so deeply, a form of communication that allowed us to break down our barriers. In my mind these people are even more at fault than interpreters.
I worked for company 2 (mentioned in the warrants).
I would like to share with everyone some of the details regarding fraud and abuse in VRS from a 1st hand perspective.
Yes, it is true that the company(ies) an its complicit staff (owners, management, terps etc etc) are a disgrace to the profession and the communities it was intended to serve legally and ethically.
But, there is a psychological exploitation and transformation that happens.
When an individual no matter how ethical and scrupulous goes into an environment that is rampant in unethical conduct, it is difficult to discern what is right and what is wrong. Even more difficult is to act against the status quo. I had been doing VRS for about 7 years (total terp experience 12 years) by the time I joined that company. I am well versed in FCC rules, transparency, ethics etc. I was able to use my knowledge, experience, and moral fiber to get out of the “twightlight zone” and do the right thing.
If you remember Patty Hearst who had been kidnapped back in the 70’s (i think), and then eventually she developed a “loving” bond with her kidnappers. Well, something similar like that happens in an environment like that. Especially when the owners or management team of a provider manages to disillussion you and themselves with their generous and kind hearted intentions towards the interpreters and the consumers. Research was done where they put an individual in a room and locked it. The person was alone and put to work doing something on a computer. Then smoke to similuate a fire was blown under the door. The person panicked and screamed to get out. They repeated the same process but instead of 1 person they put 2 people together. Smoke was coming from under the door of the room and neither one did anything. Each waited for the other to do something. They sat there and if it had been a real fire they would have both died. It is not a simple thing. It is easier to judge and speculaute what once would do from the outside.
We have a natural instinct for survival and many are trying to survive financial hardships etc. to stay in the rat race. The interpreters who worked for company 2 were mostly young, inexperienced, uncertified people. They were exploited… but there comes a time when enough is enough especially for the interpreters who were experienced and “knew better”. I spoke to a fellow terp not too long ago and she told me she was joining Company 2. I warned her of their impending doom and what they engaged in and her response was that she didn’t care; she was doing it for the money. There are those kinds of terps, but then there are many such as myself who want to do the right thing and care.
I stayed with the company for several months. I am ashamed that I stayed that long and that I allowed myself to be enticed by the possibility of running a call center of my own. I had hoped that by getting a center, I would do the right thing and transform the company, but in the end I couldn’t sacrifice my soul for it.
Every provider that spouts the breaking down of communication barriers, offering opportunities for employment, and enhanced quality of life through their services by engaging in these schemes have done nothing more than to set the deaf and hard of hearing communities back. The deaf and hard of hearing communities have not advanced anywhere if it is being achieved by unethical and illegal means. What providers have essentially done is created another form of welfare/SSI system; one that is insidious (demented) and gives the deaf and hard of hearing people the illusion that they are truly employed and doing something meaningful and worhtwhile.
My concern is not that there will be distrust between interpreter and caller (we have overcome many barriers and worked together diligently over the years to restore fractured relationships), but distrust for the service by the tax payer. One that could lead to the suspension or termination of the service. I think most people especially those in congress and the FCC know the importance of the service but they too must choose the lesser of 2 evils.
A huge trend has been created whereby the callers seem to think it is ok to get paid to make unnecessary VRS calls. It has distorted the service beyond imagination (hopefully not beyond repair). It is indeed sorrowful. I do not regret coming forward. I will continue to fight for the purity of the service as it was intended and as you (father of VRS envisioned it). I will never stop providing the best customer service, effective communication for each and every call and processing them with the utmost respect regardless of what I have witnessed and experienced. Even those consumers who engaged in schemes, I showed respect towards. We have all been exploited (consumer, interpreter, tax payer etc.), and continue to be. We can turn things around; maintain the integrity of the service and the TRS fund. But it is going to take a collective effort among all interested parties to achieve it.
Every provider I have worked for (and still) has its own variation of a scheme… I feel dirty day in and day out. If you know me, you would know I am a passionate career VI. I found my niche in VRS and I do it very well. I have been ignored, pushed out, and oppressed by providers because of my views. I have been told by a provider’s management team member that if I don’t like it to consider leaving. I do not want to quit VRS, I want VRS providers to quit their scamming and greedy ways. It is my belief and professional opinion that the monopoly and vertical business structure of Sorenson led to limited and challenging choices for small business owners, but it is not an excuse for us to engage in unethical/illegal conduct.
I ve been told that by me coming forward, I will ruin my career as an interpreter (VI) … if that is in any way, shape, or form true, then we are doomed to continue on the same path of destruction. I do not believe it. I have read the posts here, and I have found many genuinely caring people who want to improve matters.
So, let’s do it! Interpreters and consumers unite and break the monopoly of Sorenson so that we can free the market of control by one entity and find true freedom!
Blessings to all… especially those who in their darkest hours made the poorest of choices.
Gg
CR–
Agreed. Also, what about those who work at these companies? If they were in the know, then they should come forward as well. As a recipient of $ from the TRS Fund, they have the obligation to uphold the public interest. Unfortunately, if the allegations are true, it appears that they did not recognize this responsibility. Greed has this power to make people look the other way.
It’s a systemic breakdown that is causing this situation. Yes, no one person is to blame- yet we all must take responsibility for instituting solutions for this problem. Ed, I thank you for bringing these to our attention so that we all may work together and be more aware of these types of actions. All it took was one woman from Enron to bring down the Enron house- so every person counts.
In addition to everything that was mentioned in all of your postings, there are some business models that some of the VRS companies are using that are contributing to this activity. For example, some VRS companies choose a franchise model in partnering with interpreting agencies. This model requires the interpreting agency to to participate in local marketing efforts to generate call volume that will be routed to their center. This is legitimate and could create in beautiful win-win situations as long as the deaf consumer made the choice on their own, however it could cause the contracted interpreting agency to veer to nefarious business practices to inflate call volume that will be routed to their call center. This is what the affidavits seem to be about- bad choices appeared to be made and people appeared to be caught. So, the saying, “The road to hell is paved with good intentions” seems appropriate in this situation.
It all boils down to everyone making the right choice. Ultimately, I would like to a world in which VRS call volume is created through consumer choice.
To CR
I agree. They and many more choose to look the other way… by us us not doing something proactively to change the future course of VRS provision, we too are essentially looking the other way.
VI1 of Buscaron Warrant,
See post on OIG. Here is an oppty to remedy wrong and let OIG know. The more they get involved folks, the better they can purge bad practices.
Ed
VI1,
Thanks for your comment. It was very insightful.
Ed. I have come forward already. I am VI1 on the Buscaron warrant. I am perhaps the 1st and only VI that came forward against company 2 and its afiliates (company 1 and others). I first reported it to the FCC shortly after joining the company in 2006. I even contacted you for further guidance sometime in 2007 when I didn’t hear back from the FCC; and you advised me to report to FCC. I went ahead and repeated my complaint, and 2 years later the doors were open to me to tell my story to the authorities about the fraud and abuse I witnessed and participated in at company 2 in the warrants. Since then, other VI s have come forward. I hope many more will come forward; we need the deaf employees or contractors to come forward too.
To VI1 of Buscaron Warrant,
I applaud you coming forward and I hope many people will follow your example. I agree the issue is almost never black and white. Many people are not just choosing between right and wrong. Many are choosing between right and putting food on the table for their kids. It’s not easy for someone to come forward and be the whistleblower. That is why I look up to you and I hope you are successful in this battle you are successful in your future endeavors. I hope that when if I am faced with a similar situtuation that I will have the same courage as you do.
About time they got caught but ICSD contract under which VRS provider?
“interpreters are managers of these fraud vrs companies”.. wow.. does that mean if i meet an A**hole of a deaf person.. that all deaf are A**holes? what about meeting a Deaf person on SSI who is educatable, physically able and just unwilling to work.. that they ALL are that way..
Generalizing leads to a downfall of our systems that many of us “hard working, ethical and honorable” interpreters have worked so hard to build up. Several companies that have hired these ‘interpreter’ managers.. have cornered managers and have held us hostage by using our Code of Professional conduct against us.. with the confidentiality agreements that many of us cherish and follow daily.
As an interpreter.. i dont show up to a job with any pre-conceived notion.. about my client.. I go to the ER.. to provide communication.. not to help yet another junkie get his/her fix. Please.. be careful what you spread via blogs, vlogs and word of mouth.,.. it fosters fear and panick and isnt true on the whole.
We love what we do.. we cherish our consumers.. and many of us.. are working hard to fight this sham of a business. we too just want to do our job.. connect loved ones.. allow equal access.. and appreciate our consumers for using us.
NS
Wow, this is intense. Half of me is thrilled that VRS is finally getting cleaned up, and half of me is horrified. And if I had another half to throw in it would feel guilty that I didn’t proceed with whistle blowing sooner. The fact is many of we Terps who worked for such companies were told what we were doing was “not illegal” that it was just part of the process and even “a certain number of this sort of calls is allowed by the government.” When we finally confronted the owners of our center we were told that the “Big lawyers” of the over company said they weren’t doing anything illegal, that the government would just change the rules. And, indeed, our call center (one I believe is part of company 2) did clean up in most ways. Run calls (r calls) stopped … at least in front of we terps. But soon we guessed that many of the other calls made by deaf individuals were a bit suspicious, but all we knew for sure is we were interpreting. VRS needs to be cleaned up, but don’t blame the Terps. Most of us just tried to do our jobs. VRS is such a valuable service for the deaf world. I pray it isn’t lost because of this greed. But get rid of the illusion that terps get paid so much more doing VRS. My VRS rate is less than what I make in the community.
Henry, A Deaf Pundit and Valhallian: remember there are many of the following three: “employed” relay users, interpreters and other workers complicit in the grand scheme of things. Dwarfs and giants can be doing just the same thing except that they spread the lot so thin it stays under the radar. Don’t settle on discussing about which one is the least and most of evils. This gives guilty persons just enough room to weasel themselves out of the picture and get away from this. People who follow rules in relay but speed, drink on the highway aren’t any better. Remember this. The Lord will judge by going through your whole book of life.
To all:
I would like to suggest that everyone remember what Ed says at the top of this page that “it is very important to understand that although warrants have been issued, in the court of law, person/company/etc are presumed innocent until proved guilty from due process of courts.” It seems that everyone charged in these two criminal complaints and eveyone else mentioned (Company 1 and 2) are already guity in your eyes. The US has the best legal system in the world because of due process, the opportunity to a fair trial with representation and the ability to confront your accusers in a court of law. Please allow the legal system to work the way it was established more than 220 years ago. You are all provided the same rights under the oldest written operating constitution in the World…the US Constitution. Re-read it, it is an amazing document.
Any interpreter who participated in this scam should lose their certification. I have a hard time believing that interpreters didn’t know what was happening. The FCC is just looking for a reason to reduce the amount they pay per minute for VRS services. This gives them that, all wrapped up with a bow on top! This will result in lower wages for call center terps, which will result in the best terps returning to the community full time, which will result in lousy VRS terps overall, which hurts Deaf people. And – just you watch – this company will simply change its name and come back again to screw us again. Everyone should be paying attention to who’s behind the VRS company you use. Ethics matter! Protect our community from scammers who want nothing more than to make money on the backs of Deaf, and give nothing back.
Company 1 is CACVRS in Flint, Mich. Comapny 2 is Viable in Rocksville, MD. Company 1 is a certified VRS provider based in Flint, Michigan. Company 2 is not a certified VRS provider that can bill directly to NECA/FCC, Instead Company 2 billed for VRS through Company 1. Company 2 (Viable) billed approximately 60% of the VRS minutes billed by Company 1. WoW.. Company 2 is bigger than company 1 but not VRS certified vrs provider?
Time for FCC to force all VRS provider to be certified by NECA/FCC. No subcontracts!!!!
Troy
VI1 of Buscaron Warrant – as a fellow interpreter I commend you for coming forward! And if anyone threatens you that your career is over – I’d be happy to have you work with me!
Keep up the great work!
If Viable is company number two then isn’t that a Deaf Owned Company screwing over the deaf community? Very sad. Instead of blaming the terps, blame the deaf owners who got greedy.
This is obviously a complex issue with many factors involved, with not necessarily one person to be blamed for it. Interpreters are torn between their paychecks and their ethics and whether discussing the ’shadiness’ of the calls they ‘process’ will break those ethics. Their managers are told to tell them the FCC rules that honestly in my opinion are far outdated for VRS, and leave the door open for businesses (and isnt that what all VRS companies turn into no matter how good their intentions may have been) to find loopholes that lead to money in everyone’s pockets. Deaf consumers are paid to be ‘marketers’ that help boost minutes….its the industry as a whole that needs to be reviewed.
The service is a beautiful thing for all involved when used for what it was intended, providing functional equivalency for its users. Pointing the finger at one person, service, company or interpreter is not a fair assumption to make. Most VI’s I know are disgusted by the fact there are some things over which we have no control over short of turning in a resignation letter (and I’m sorry but I love it when I process call in which communication is equivalent for both users) ….so now is the time for consumers and VI’s to put our feet down and our minds together to help reform the industry as a whole. I challenge everyone to turn this into a list of suggestions of how to foster change.
nic terp. not so fast. any vi coming forward needs to prove that there were zero tolerance in the first place to point that vi quit his/her job on the spot. many pocketed income they need then when they have nothing to lose they sell out to save face and use selling out as springboards to better jobs and deaf and other good people are left in the dust. they’re probably not any better than fullest of purists.
Yes, I agree with bot.
my rate I make at VRS is much less than my rate working in the community. That said, just last year (when all these “alleged” scams are happening under the radar at EVERY VRS provider) at a local VRS center, interpreters had to petition and fight to get the VRS Company to RAISE the rates since they were being grossly UNDERPAID. So, its not all “cha-ching” when it comes to interpreter’s reasons for working at VRS. Its about stability for interpreters who can only work on a set schedule and cannot accomodate the hectic lifestyle of different end/start times each day. Its about providing services to a wide array of consumers without driving all around town and its about deaf/hoh people having access..better access to the telephone.
Its finally happening and thank goodness. Thank you VI1 and all the other VI’s that came forward. After reading the warrants, it seems this situation is much worse than I have ever experienced. I have never just “sat there” and let minutes rack up…I have standards…I know the rules…I am a certified interpreter. We need to clean up this VRS mess and get back to basics – deaf and hearing communicating through the phone, having a conversation with a VI. Simple as that…
Troy- are you saying that organizations like BISVRS, CADVRS, Convo Relay, etc- should be banned?
bot: I would like to reiterate what I said earlier and to allow the justice system to work as it does in this great country. You assume from a prior posting that Company 2 is in fact the company that Troy says it is; and now you judge the owners of such company as being “greedy.” I am very dissappointed to read the allegations against Buscaron, Fernandez (ICSD) and Hawkins in the two warrants/criminal complaints posted by Ed, for which I thank him. However, please remember that these are allegations, not convictions. We should be careful in how we judge as only those who have no sin upon his hands may cast the first stone.
James is right. Please keep in mind that the allegations made in these two warrants only means just that. Both FBI and involved parties in the warrant will have their day in court. Until then, they’re presumed innocent. FBI have lost in courts; they do not always win. The allegations in warrants do look like tough for defendants to overcome, however, we haven’t heard defendant’s side of story which I presume will be told to the judge or jurors in court. So in the eyes of law, they are innocent.
Bravo to the VIs who came forward!! YOU ALL ARE HEROS!
Hearing and Deaf alike have been dirty in the VRS business for quite some time now. (Company 1-Hearing, Company 2-Deaf) Shame on all of them!!!!!
Dishonesty and cronyism is everywhere including; call centers, agencies and interpreters. The profession of interpreting is often not “what you know” (skills) but “who you know” (buddies-regardless of skills). I could write a book on what I’ve seen in the last 30+ years.
I wouldn’t want an interpreter to interpret for me if they were one of the ones who participated in these “run calls”. If they were not honest in VRS, why would I think they would be honest as a community interpreter? I also wouldn’t want to work for a company who screws their own community. Complaints need to be filed with RID on ALL of the interpreters who WILLINGLY PARTICIPATED and should have their certifications revoked. They have violated their Code of Professional Conduct. Company 1 and 2 should not be allowed to provide VRS services ever again!!
Innocent till proved guilty?
I actually do criminal defence cases. This is pretty much a myth. Believe it if you wish but it ain’t realty for the most part. Reputations get ruined, jobs are lost, companies close down, etc. long before a verdict can be reached.
And to a large degree this is irrelevant here. Yes, the parties subject to the warrants may be found innocent in law. Yipee, yahoo or whatever – they might not go to jail or be fined. The minute management practices might be found to be legal because they were not adequately prohibited by FCC or there may be lack of intent or knowledge or whatever.
But for the community and for the VRS to continue there are already lessons to be learned and actions to be taken. Whether technically legal or not the minute management practices need to stop. Legitimate calls need to be handled correctly. etc.
So I would suggest focusing on changes that need to be made instead of on the question of guilt or innocence and whether heads should be chopped off or hands slapped or whatever.
James-
they assume because they know. and they are correct. company 2 is viable
sad-
Thank you, Henry. Exactly. My intention of posting warrants was to identify unethical practices – as my letter to the FCC did – so FCC can start initiating much needed changes to bring VRS back to what it should be doing – serving deaf/hoh. It is a wake up call – not just for VRS providers, but for FCC and VRS users as well.
Thank you, Henry for posting that clarification!
eyes open & thumbs up…
BIG HAND WAVE for all VI’s who have come forward.This is very sad news but not surprising Those of us who work in the VRS business KNOW this has happened , although, not to this extreme. Seems to me all of these providers being caught keep linking back to Company 1. Has anyone investigated Company 1 ? How can Company 1 hire so many contract companies that are dirty? If we have 100 providers, I understand 1 or 2 is dirty but we have a small amount of providers and large amount of dirty providers. Seems it is easy for Company 1 to blame sub contractors. Why did company 1 ignore the minutes from Company 2 ? Why not company lawyer see something dirty and warn no no should not do? I am suspecting that many many people are involved in this and it makes me sick . I think CAC in Flint Michigan needs the FBI to come check their records. Something to me is dirty with Company 1. This is a very sad time for the industry and interpreters. Many interpreters will lose their job without notice. This is not first time interpreters lose their jobs, without notice, in VRS industry. Everyone think it is safe to work for VRS but now I feel very risky to work for VRS. Now all qualified skilled interpreters will avoid VRS because of risk and then deaf community will get beginner interpreters with no skill. Very sad time to me. I give big support to the VI’s for what you have done. I support your honesty and integrity and not one interpreter in this field should judge you for what you have done. It was moral, ethical and from the heart. We need more honest interpreters like you and I am proud to know you are out there in my profession. For these people who made so much money off of our hard working hands, shame on you~
Let us not forget the deaf callers who were and still ARE calling in to these companies to make their podcast “run calls” , “revenue calls”. Let us not forget that these deaf callers are taking advantage of the system, and are reaping the benefits, and are getting paid to use VIs, to abuse the system. VIs are constantly struggling with what to do. They are interpreting these calls knowing that these callers aren’t interested in the message. These deaf callers share the brunt of responsibility. VRS is a damaged good/service. Why? Because of those in your own community, your fellow deaf.
Quick question – suppose Company 1 and 2 both are found guilty of running minutes and other violations , what will happen to these owners? Will they go to jail? What will happen to their employees? WIll they be let go? People are talking about it. Just wondering. Thanks!
I’m curious to know. I see in affidavit that VRS calls from China were from 5:00 a.m. to–8:oo a.m. Does Company 2 have interpreters that know Chinese Sign Language (CSL)?
I am DONE with VRS for just these reasons. I won’t work for any VRS company any more. It is very demeaning to sit and interpret podcasts, on and on and on for someone who’s not paying attention. Some podcasts have 2-4 people talking over each other at a rapid pace, some with crude language, or very thick accents etc. etc. The Deafies don’t care how hard we have to work. I’ve been told by the Deafies, quite bluntly, that they’re being paid by the company for staying on calls.
Some Deafies wear sunglasses so they can watch the tv next to the vp screen. They think we can’t see the tv in the reflection of the sunglasses. Who is really at fault here? Who is really going to suffer the consequences? Everyone.
Just also remember many Deaf community are involved in scam. They use VRS to get paid money then tell interpreter to stop interpreting. They know wrong, but continue, so they can get money. Shame on them, too.
From what I have “heard” people who live in group homes or are otherwise not that independent and capable are the Deafies who are hired to make the calls and they are paid a token rate. I would hardly put their level of guilt up against that of the professional people involved.
Sure there will be exceptions of capable deafies doing it but they will be just that – exceptions.
Henry: You are SOOOO wrong. Having worked for a VRS company that seems to have been doing these calls, I can assure you that the “deafies” involved were mostly NOT in group homes. (I didn’t even realize how wide spread the scam was btw). From my POV the Deaf community were the primary perpetrators of this scam, being the ones in charge and making the calls. At my agency is was only the Terps who complained, not the deaf. Sadly it will be everybody that suffers. But I agree we should stop pointing the finger (although it’s hard when people try to paint 1 group as perpetrators — the Terps, and another group as “poor victims” — the Deaf.) We should focus on how to clean up this system since it’s perhaps one of the greatest things to happen to the deaf hoh world. But I do wonder what’s going to happen to all the agencies and terps involved …. and when?
They aren’t the exceptions they are the NORM. I suppose you wouldn’t know simply because you merely “heard” un true statements.
Interpreters are stuck in limbo, knowing the calls are fake and angry and bitter that they have to interpret these instense podcasts that are spoke at fast paces while the deaf caller just sits back and watches tv or chats online.
We, the interpreters are told by our supervisors that we must interpret these calls, that according to the FCC and TRS that we are merely but a ‘dial tone’ and that we do NOT get to NOR can NOT judge a call based on it’s validity. NOR can we disconnect a call for any reason.
Shame on the higher-ups, Shame on the companies and all those who knowingly entered into this, Shame on us the interpreters who didn’t stand up against this earlier but ALSO SHAME on the deaf callers (who I can assuredly say ARE not in group homes, they run the calls from their offices at work, in their own homes with their family in the room or with their wife swapping in when the husband starts to fall asleep) SHAME on you ..Mr/Mrs deaf caller…shame on you for knowingly exploit a valuable service to your own community!
Response to vrs interpreter:
VRS companies cannot “force” you to do anything you don’t want to do. Interpreters can choose to make fraudulent calls and harm the Deaf community, or not. You can choose to stay in a place that is unethical, or explore your options and find a company who IS ethical (or return to the community full-time). Don’t talk to me about being “forced.” If you choose to participate in a fraud, you are as guilty as the VRS company whose fraudulent policies you follow.
lizardyke,
not sure which vrs terp you are referring to as I don’t see any of us using the word “force/ed”.
However, it’s also not a CHOICE to make!! I can only speak for myself when I say my experience was simply: I interviewed a t a company I had been hearing nothing but positive things abt from both interpreters and deaf consumers. I got the job and quickly found my niche with VRS interpreting and my company. Having only been there a few months I noticed these calls that are being spoken about now (and being investigated) But who am I to judge a real versus fake call? How would any of you deaf consumers out there feel if you thought the VI on the other end was JUDGING the validity of your call? And if deamed fake CLICK disconnected. where is the TRUST that we interpreters and deaf consumers alike talk about wanting?? so I ..as well as others.. trusted that these calls were real. I did my job to the best of my ability. And I am angry that a deaf consumer could and would take money to run a fictious call, to have me on the other hand really caring about getting the message correct and the tone and my interpretation only to have him/her filing nails, typing an IM to his/her buddy, watching espn on the tv behind the vp,
I am not guilty of fraudulent activity. the powers that be who are PAYING these deaf callers under the table and the deaf callers themselves are!
I am guilty of being naive, a fool! I’m guilty of not standing up for myself as a professional and going to the powers that be and expresing my concern for callers who aren’t paying attention to their OWN call. I’m guilty of not realizing sooner and leaving my company. Im GUILTY OF TRUSTING THE COMPANY I BElIEVED IN!
I believe in VRS and although I have only been doing it less than a year – I really want to see a company take off that isn’t corrupt, that values trust, that values both terps and deaf callers, that values the service being provided, that doesn’t care about growing into a HUGE compant but that is ok with just serving the community it intends to serve and doing it well!
Just to be sure this is not missed….From what I heard , in the past , Company 1 had extensive involvement with group homes in Michigan,when they were SSHI . Thought that was a an interesting link to Henry’s comment.
embarassed vi:
vrs interpreter (21:37:46) used the word “forced.” I am not saying that all VRS terps are doing dirty work. But it’s common knowledge that SOME terps knew what was going on, and CHOSE to continue to participate. It’s those terps that should be ashamed. And, yes, any Deaf person who participated should go to jail too. All of these people have severely damaged the VRS industry and the people who work in it who are honest. I’m very angry that a few dirty, greedy people have chosen to enrich themselves at the expense of the majority of the Deaf and interpreter communities. Shame on all of them!!
OK, my group home information seems to have been incomplete. I accept that there are capable and independent Deafies doing it too.
But, hey, one thing is obvious from the many posts here. People HAVE been complaining and reporting and all that. Nobody was doing anything about it. That is what just changed with the FBI warrants – finally something being done.
With the complaints and reports of the past not being acted on it is not surprising that many people – interpreters, deafies, etc. – were under the impression that it was OK.
So, if you are all still wanting to point fingers, get a few of them pointing at FCC, FBI, OIG, and all those other agencies that should have been doing something long before now.
WoW I am so saddened by the comments I see here. I too started working as a VI a few years ago. I was also told when I questioned what I saw that I was a “dial tone” and it was not my right to question the validity of the call. I put my heart and soul into interpreting those stupid podcasts. I researched the FCC guidelines and could find no clearcut rule about not interpreting those inane phone calls. ( and yes we can see the tv in your glasses) I of course believed that the intent of the law was being violated. My colleagues and I begged our boss to investigate the validity of these calls. They were told the same thing. Finally, it seemed the message had gotten through and we were no longer doing these types of calls. A few still slipped through, but I was proud to see an end to them. We preach confidentiality and when we follow it we are criticized, we are told that we must interpret whatever comes across our screen. We are told that the hearing, can deaf can. If hearing can defraud or be defrauded so can the deaf community. If I have to interpret someones drug deal, than where is the line, that I have crossed in interpreting these other types of calls. In my heart I have tried to do my job with integrity and without passing judgment. Isn’t that what I was supposed to do. While at the same time lobbying to see it stopped. It seems many want to put the blame on the interpreters greed, but like so many others, I make less in vrs, but love the work. I love the variety, the service, and the deaf community.
I would like to see these practices cleaned up , but it is going to take more than finger pointing. It is going to take cooperation between all involved to clean up their act.
To all those who are damning relay providers–including those VI’s who say they refuse to work in relay anymore:
Please do not let a few rotten apples ruin a valuable industry and service. Relay is so important to so many people–both deaf people and interpreters. There are still a number of ethical providers out there who work hard to follow FCC rules. Please do not confuse Company#1, Company#2 and any other companies that contract with either Company#1 or #2–with other companies that do work hard to follow rules and try to provide functional equivalent services to deaf people while valueing interpreters who provide this service.
Deaf people–you should focus on those companies who are always fighting for deaf people’s rights while following FCC rules.
Interpreters–you should try to work for those companies who follow fcc rules while treating interpreters well.
Not all relay companies do the same thing that company #1 and #2 do. Just like not all telephone company do the same thing as `1.
Same as not all telephone company function like WorldCom. Not all energy company function like Enron. Not all relay company function like Company #1 and #2.
Don’t let some greedy rotten apples (if found guilty) ruin important VRS service. Best only use certified providers who do not work with uncertified providers, my opinion.
AMEN rst! AMEN save relay
to proud to be deaf-
most likely we work for compant 1 or 2 and so our accounts are true and ring true with the affadavits therefore are they really ‘great’ companies?
These manufactured minuted do not surprise me at all. I am sure most of the unethical VRS providers are increasing their minutes by several different methods. There are many ways to do it. These unethical VRS providers hire salespeople that get paid big money for VRS minute increases. As the minutes ramp up the sales teams make more and more money. This is the reason that “manufactured” VRS minutes could occur at any company that does not have a strong ETHICS policies, programs and contracts.
Some of the VRS providers are new to providing “telecom” services. Some of these new providers have made these unethical practices easy to do.
BUT… there are VRS providers that are actually part of the large telecom corporations that provide many types of telecom services for both deafies and hearing (Wireless service & phones, land lines, long distance, VRS, IP, Wireless phones, etc). These VRS providers are part of large worldwide corporations that have very strong ethics policies, programs and training. If this type of thing occured at one of these corps, the people who orchrestrated it would be fired and handed off to authorities. These big telecom corp would need that type of liabity or dirty money. They have many different products and services and do not rely on “raping” the VRS fund to pay for everything.
They provide very good VRS service but may not offer you all of the freebies thats these unethical providers bribe you with. That is what I use as an indicator of an unethical VRS provider. The more free stuff they bribe you with…..the dirtier they are…
correction to my previous post…
I said “These big telecom corp would need that type of liabity or dirty money.”
I MEANT TO SAY These big telecom corp would NOT need that type of liabity or dirty money. Big difference… sorry for the confusion.
I must say it is sad how everyone is pointing the finger here as to who is responsible. As an interpreter, when I do a community assignment, or interpret a call as a VI, the biggest thing preached to us through employers, deafies, RID is the ethics and confidentiality.
Would you like it if you were placing a call and as a VI I asked you “Is your call valid?” or “are you really interested in what they’re talking about because you don’t seem like you are?”. As a dial-tone, who am I to determine if your call is valid. I can assume all I want to that your camera is setup on top of your television and that you aren’t paying a bit of attention as you nod your head, but I have no way to prove it. Don’t assume that calls are “run” the way they were a few years ago. This investigation has been going on for quite some time if you read the dates in the affidavit, so don’t assume that this is the norm right now. I can say I have never run a call with a privacy screen up, but of course I’ve had times where I question the validity, but then again who am I to judge.
As rst said above, where do we draw the line? What is ethically acceptable? You want me to say I think the call is invalid to who? That I should not interpret the meet spot for someone to buy their drugs? That it’s my place to say the person calling is the opposite gender they are checking an account for? That someone is using drugs on my screen? That a phone sex call doesn’t seem appropriate?
My job is to provide equal access to all, not to tell you what is morally and ethically appropriate for you to be doing. If these companies are indeed found guilty that is sad and I would feel ashamed. However there is no one person to place the blame on and everyone here seems to think they know who is responsible. No matter who is at fault EVERYONE will suffer the consequences, so the finger pointing should stop. The sad thing is, this will have an effect on valid communications for everyone who uses VRS. I agree, it does need to be cleaned up and companies should run their calls appropriately.
As other VI’s have stated, I also make less as a VI than as a community interpreter, so the money factor is not the issue. We do our jobs because we love what we do, we love bridging the communication gap, we love hearing family members get excited to finally be able to communicate, to empower a person to call for themselves and to understand options and make decisions on their own. This is my job, this is my life, this is what I enjoy. Don’t think we just run calls with no emotion, I put my all into every call I make or receive.
If the allegations in the criminal warrant and from the cited VI witnesses are true, you are looking at around 700,000+ fraudulent minutes out of 900,000 total at ICSD. If true, ICSD’s $2 per minute cut amounts to stealing $1.4 million dollars from the TRS fund in 8 months. I imagine the FCC will also want a refund of the 3 million more paid out to (company 2) and whoever company 1 was, but the only one I see in Flint, MI is:
Communication Access Center for the Deaf and Hard of Hearing
(VRS only)
1631 Miller Road, Flint, MI 48503
If these companies are required to repay the government, that is a huge chunk of change to come up with.
Let’s face it. VRS fees are generous. It’s an invitation for fraud. I’m just surprised it took this long for someone to get mad greedy.
Company #2 got busted too. Its a big news. It also upset me because we need the service. Damn those people who became very greedy.
I did some more research and found a filing by CAC with the FCC. In the filing, CAC mentions that Viable was one of the companies they brought into VRS.
By the way, good blog.
Another interesting fact thats been developed from the responses to our yearlong communication devices and employment survey project. We have 573 responses so far and the preliminary findings already show that deaf people who primarily use text based communication devices show a higher employability ratio than those who primarily use video based communication devices.
Viable tech is the best and easier to access anywhere especially when we face any urgent or emergency. And there was abig impact to deaf community unlike other VRS providers. Look at CNN and other news sources marveling at Viable and its inventory… then why should they put stabs to Viable…? It’s not true based on what the others said about Viable.
VIs: I certainly understood that some VIs reported to FCC about the questionable calls that were placed at their VRS. I also understand that none of the conversations were shared.
But you cannot assure my skepticism that the VIs would not use MY information and/or conversations against me one day in the future should it become a major issue in some kind of conflict out there. The VIs are capable of using these information as their prime weapons to wage a battle upon others.
Yes, the VRS companies that did wrong things shall learn and maybe redeem themselves in the process. That is part of growing pains, I guess. But for the VIs? I gotta be cautious and be skeptical at all times.
Remember: Most of us taught them to sign and in the end, they overcharge us for interpreting. The majority of VIs are leeches, smooching off from our communities, using ASL to make $$ for living. It’s mind-boggling, really.
R-
I was taught ASL from my parents! I am not a leech, I do not ‘mooch’ from your/MY community either. (smooching is kissing)
I hoped that this conversation would have been a healthy one and one that was mature enough and it had been up until the ‘name calling’
Not surprised. I’ve known about the abuses that were going on for about a year now and filed a couple of reports to the FCC and prompted them to rein in the problems before it gets worse. For my own security I’m not going to spill the names of TRS / VRS provider but they literally encouraged deaf people to make bogus calls. Some of them are not so bogus but yet a bogus because they’d set up a sister organization to perform bogus research on services available by calling up every hotels / motels in the area using TRS to find out what, if any services they provided for the deaf people. All this was done in order to boost VRS / TRS company’s profit. There are other stories that I’ve heard about, which is shameful practice because it jeopardizes the very resources that are extremely valuable to the deaf community for the sake of few greedy CEO’s who were not satisfied with few mere million dollars. They wanted more. I can safely say that some deaf people were responsible for this so-called abuse so don’t shift the blame solely on hearing people and the interpreters.
It’s about time they cleaned up their act and acted responsibly. I spoke up and reported the abuses to the FCC because I cared about the future of our TRS / VRS services. I want it to be there for many years to come therefore I did my part as a citizen of deaf community.
Ridor..
“Remember: Most of us taught them to sign and in the end, they overcharge us for interpreting. The majority of VIs are leeches…”
That’s funny…when do YOU pay for the interpreter?? I believe it is your doctor, your laywer, your employer, etc who pay for interpreting services to provide you with equal access and to be in compliance with the ADA. Not you. If you are paying for an interpreter, I suggest you get in touch with NAD to learn more about your legal rights.
And as a VI with experience in many of the top VRS providers, I can tell you…The VIs are not the leeches. We get a FRACTION of what the company makes. Many companies require that a VI interpret at least 35 minutes per hour ot the VI gets fired. Let’s see…35 minutes x $6.40 (paid per minute from NECA) equals $224 PER HOUR that the VRS company gets. How much of that do you think the interpreters get? not even 1/5 of that!! Now…how many interpreters are working that same hour in the call center?? The most I’ve ever heard of an interpreter making was $50/hr but she was certified like 3 times, NIC Master and worked the night shift and weekends (when terps usually get a little more as an incentive to work the shifts that no one wants.) $224 – 50 = $174. $174 per hour, per interpreter in EVERY call center. And that’s if every interpreter makes $50/hour! Most dont! Most make in the $30-$40 range.
The VIs are in the trenches, working hard to provide the best interpreting services they can. Don’t attack the VIs…
Who REALLY are the leeches?
~Shonna
“And that’s if every interpreter makes $50/hour! Most dont! Most make in the $30-$40 range.”
And you consider that bad? pfffft
Most interpreters are not even certified, they learned from family/friends and yet they make 40 dollars an hour.
So many people spend years in college and get pay ( if lucky) like 35 an hour and you are complaining about getitng paid 30-40 dollars an hour for a skill that costed you no sweat nor tears?
Only certified VI’s should be allowed to interpret. It is the VI’s themselves who have elevated interpreting fees. Just like when stores agree to jack up prices all at once to make more profit and take advantage of consumers.
Should the NAD oversee the VRS companies? What happend to the auditors when they audit the call center?
Steve
I dont know where you are getting your information from about the Vi’s elevating the fee’s, but it is the vrs company that decides the rate of pay, most interpreters make less working in the vrs industry than freelancing. And many of us spent years in college going to interpreter training schools, doing mentorships and interning before we ever started interpreting. We make maybe 50.00 per hour working in vrs and out of that we pay our taxes, which are higher because we are self-employed, we pay for our own health insurance, disability insurance, liability insurance, pension, dues to maintain certification, 80 hours of continuing education, (which is by no means cheap), and of course our own bills for our famlies. Interpreters rarely are able to work interpreting for a 40 hour week, 52 weeks of the years. Rich ha ha …. do the math. If you gross 70k for the year that is great. If lose my job in vrs, I cant collect unemployemt, because I receive a 1099…If I am disabled, I can maybe collect state disability. I go to a chiropracter everyweek, because my wrists and back hurt…. hmmm and despite all of that I love what I do. Comments like this really hurt…… no sweat … no tears… are you kidding. Worrying everyweek that I will have work to pay my bills at the end of the month. Saving so that I will have enough to get through the slow summer. Working 80 hours one week, and 2 hours the next week. hmmmmmm Those college educated people who earn 35/40 hours ….don’t pay their own taxes, insurance, 401k’s or disability insurance.
You seemed to have missed the point. The reason many of the VI’s didnt report what was happening was becaused of the missed place idea, that they were/are a dial tone that doesnt make judgements on the calls, not can they discuss the confidential phone call that YOU the deaf person just asked us to make…… get your facts straight
It breaks my heart to see all this tension being created between deaf community (1/2 of our consumers) and interpreters.
We all worked hard (deaf and hearing alike) to build a bond, a relationship, a trust. Only now to see deafies pick on terps call us leeches, put down our skills, put down our profession…do you think that way when you use us? do you feel that way when we are right there infront of you being prof and curteous? do you really see us as back stabbing leeches who mooch off of you. Of course we learned the language from you…you hold the language you hold the history you hold the core of what ASL is..i wouldnt want it any other way…i wouldnt want to learn it from a hearing person…we learned it from you because we wanted to be the best…..and now you hold that against us? you put us down for it?
dont be prejudice..for a group who has suffered in the past and overcome with such esteem and such pride…dont put us down…dont judge all VIs or terps…don’t group us all together and label us…we don’t do that to you!
bottom line…most of us are your sons and daughters!!! most of us are your friends!!!! most of us do what we do because we cherish it we cherish you we cherish our jobs we love it…its not just ‘work’ for us..its our LIVES!!!
alot of emotions flying right now..anger, hurt, betrayal, shock, disgust..etc.. but we should be in this together…we should let this bring us closer together….to solve the problem..to work together at fixing the mistakes, righting the wrongs…
meaningless bickering about what we get paid and how we are leeches just isn’t appropriate nor called for! and how DARE you tell us our jobs dont cost us swear nor tears..you arent US you dont know what we do..some of us fought hard for our skills, fought hard to be accepted fought hard to learn to do what we do BEST…
STOP IT! Everyone just STOP the back and forth! focus on the service..VRS… focus on getting a company out there who has qualified skilled VIs ..who has an ethical business setup ….
not ONCE have I read on here a terp call any deaf person a DEMEANING NAME..not once have i seen a terp on here demean your life or your job or your hard earned efforts….then i ask WHY ARE some deaf comments doing just that to us?
STOP please!
To embarassedVI (10:53:49) :
It breaks my heart to see all this tension being created between deaf community (1/2 of our consumers) and interpreters.
=========
Ignore these people who posted these harsh comments. They are a bunch of ignorant monkeys. They do not speak for deaf people like me. Interpreters have my support. Without you folks, I wouldn’t be where I am now. Hang in there.
Sorenson is VRS certify, therefore they are paid directly from NECA at a rate of $6.73 per minute.
$6.73 x 60 minutes = $403.80 per hour.
I’m a trilingual terp with over 15 years of experience. AS, BS, MA, CI/CT. My pay is less than 1% of that. Who is greedy?
There are many things that I would like to mention in this blog to point out many things that have been said and done but it is not going to be worth of my time because it will not take us anywhere, but to spread more wildfires. When someone points finger, there’s three more fingers pointing back to that person.
Here’s what I want everyone to remember about what happened during the Civil War. Brothers, Uncles, Fathers, and Sons fighting each other, Families torn in two places, North and South. Millions died without any cause, but over territories, North and South in which we now call U.S. of America.
Now, Was it worth for what it cost? What do they say after this happened?
United we stand, Divide we fall…They learned the lesson very dearly. Lives paid very dearly. Families lost in this war. The concept also apply to this situation. We continue to keep spreading the hatred, anger, and bitterness. The blaming game. We are bound to lose everything we once hold dearly. For both sides.
There is no one to blame but the Big Wigs! We need to unite and stand up to those Big Wigs who have become greedy and put our lives at risk. There is a new dilemma brewing, Now Viable can’t pay their employees because CAC withheld the TRS payment in fear that FCC will want them to pay the TRS payment back because of all the so called Manufactured Minutes, whether it was true or not.
I still don’t understand how Viable did not have any money for the Rainy Days to pay their employees during time like this. How can they have blown millions of dollars and have no savings for the rainy days?
It is because of bad management by the Upper Management and Executives, They spend all of that money on unnecessary spendings, lavish spendings, and paying for something that they don’t even need. Preparation and Due diligence in planning ahead for rough times like this makes a Good Company worth working for.
I hope that Viable, somehow, find a way to pay their employees back because they won’t have FCC on their back, but a Department of Labor as well for Non-Payment if they can’t find a way to pay their employees’ paychecks.
This is a very sad day for everyone. Let this be a lesson to be learned. Good Company will always put their money away for Rainy Days! Bad Company pocket all that for their own reason. The bigger they are, the harder they fall!
Does someone have a link to the indictment that they can post? Can’t find it online.
LG:
1% of that $403 is actually below the minimum wage- so I am sure that figure should be closer to 10%. And I am hoping that none of the VRS providers are actually utilizing the interpreters for the full 60 minutes for their shift- ideal occupancy should be much lower than the 100%,you outlined in your example. However, in the case of fraud in which interpreters allegedly do not interpret the call at the request of the customer, there is probably less concern with the need for rest for ergonomics reasons.
Having said that, it is apparent that there are a lot of hurt feelings regarding this situation. Again, this is a systemic breakdown and noone should be to blame- it doesn’t do much good. I am not happy with some of the comments that caused this firestorm, because they were self serving and destructive. However, as one of you mentioned, there is only a few people who knowingly engage in this malicious and hateful behavior and their comments should be ignored in the grand scheme of things.
Can we call a truce? Interpreters and consumers must coexist peacefully in order to help to make the world a better place. I know that I really appreciate the interpreters who have helped provide access for me and many other people.
Scot,
Yes, I believe you are correct.. LG probably made a typo in his/her haste to leave the message. 10% is correct. As a former VI, I can absolutely say that we interpreted/worked around 50 min out of the hour. I do not believe this is true of all VRS companies, but the company I worked for allowed a 10 min break each hour. To many of my hearing friends and family, a 10 min break each hour sounds like a great deal! However, as an interpreter, this often meant I interpreted a full 50 minutes per hour…. most of the time with no teaming and, I believe, always on legitimate calls. I have noticed many of my friends (as well as myself) with physical problems now because of the constant grind of the interpreting. The company I worked for had a very high call volume of legitimate calls, so there was no downtime.
Just read thru the FBI legal papers. Devastating stuff, indeed. It sounds like the FBI is working its way through the VRS ‘food chain’, and I suspect that this filing flurry won’t be the last we’ll hear of it. Those companies involved better get good lawyers.
I’m glad that the FBI is cracking down on these kind of abuses. From what I’ve read in the comments, VI’s are being severely impacted by these kind of calls and as a result, morale plummets. I’d hate to see VI’s leaving the profession similar to their TRS counterparts.
The VRS industry is a great asset to have, and rooting out fraud/misuse will only help strengthen it and make it available now and in the future.
Whoa. I’m glad that this generates a volatile discussion even if it touches a sore spot on both sides of the communities.
I never said that all VIs are leeches. I said the majority of VIs are. Heck, my sister works as VI! She told me that her starting salary was $38 per hour. My sister also said that the VRS also provided the insurance and all that … so don’t tell me that you have to pay your own health insurance! She’s not even RID certified but is working on it, though.
The point is that anyone earning more than $38 per hour working from VRS designed to serve Deaf consumers, to me, is somehow disturbing. Why not $25 per hour including benefits? Many Deaf people working in or outside of VRS companies do not earn $38 per hour like VIs do, so why do that? I know it is to offset the competitive rates but still, to me, that is disturbing.
The point is that — the majority of VIs are in it to make a living. But again, so do we! It is disheartening when we taught these hearies our language only to be overcharged at any deaf-related functions. I vividly recall having to pay several interpreters at a local function and it was absurd …
I was not even aware that the VIs are required to interpret more than 35 minutes per hour or be fired — is that true? Or are you pulling my leg?
I recall seeing a segment on DeafNewspaper.com where a Deaf reporter made a vlog which basically was informed by VIs on telling Deaf people how to behave in front of TV screen. These kind of things — the VIs are there to interpret, they are not there to criticize the way I sign, move the chair or whatever it is. So for some VIs to complain to someone else about it is … silly, in my opinion. Just interpret and shut up. That s your job and that is what I expect from you at all times. I know you’re part of our community one way or other, but professionally, just interpret and shut up.
So when I learned that it was an interpreter who ratted out to FCC/FBI, I cannot *help* but feel that the interpreters will use the info against us whenever they feel like it one day. I know the majority of VIs will not do things like that but it will take a long time for Deaf people to trust the interpreters like that.
No offense, folks. This is lively discussion and I enjoy that very much.
R-
Wow Im so disturbed to know that some of the deaf community thinks of interpreters this way. Im a CODA and find it so hard to believe that those are the thoughts that are running thru the deaf persons mind as I stand there and interpret for them. My mother and father deeply appreciate every interpreter they get and would never say or think anything less than great thoughts. I got into the VRS bizz because I fully enjoy my job. I enjoy going to work everyday knowing that I am helping some1 have a voice. My job means the world to me. I think that my main concern is if you dont trust us or think that we are over paid then why in gods name do you use us. Then why dont you put your voice on a piece of paper with a writing utensil like they used to. I dont mean to be mean or rude and this certainly doesnt go for all deafies because I know many of them that fully appreciate us for what we do.
ridor – sometimes it helps if one gets the FACTs correct!!!!!! Most VIs and interpreters are ‘freelance’ aka not staff AKA we PAY OUR OWN INSURANCE hence why we are telling you we pay our own insurance…
Sometimes in a healthy conversation between two parties..it helps when both parties have their done the CORRECT RESEARCH!!!!!!!
ridor….
I would like to stress that each VRS company is diffrent. I have worked for 2 companies. The first company, depending on the time of day, I did typically work 35-40 min an hour. The second company, that I no longer work for, I typically interpreted 50 or more min an hour.
I love language and I love interpreting. I have worked hard to become a good interpreter. I continue working hard in hopes that I will become even better. I feel that I have been blessed by my profession and I give back to the deaf community whenever I can. In fact, in the month of June, I volunteered over 60 hours of my time working/interpreting with deaf individuals.
My point is simply that what you have heard or seen from a handful of interpreters should not determine your view of all interpreters. There are a handful of individuals that I will not interpret for, simply because of thier personality. We don’t click, they have been rude for no reason. I do not judge the entire deaf community based on these few individuals that I don’t care for.
As for compensation… I have attended college and paid for over 1200 hours of workshops during my career. I pay for my own insurance. I do not get reimbursed for milage (and I live in a rural area where driving two hours for an assignment is normal). I do not have sick time or vacation time. All of these things are factored into what I charge. Yes, I want to make a good wage, but that does not make me a bad person. I do not cheat the system, I work very hard for what I have earned and I look for ways to give back to the deaf community whenever possible.
There are all kinds of people. Those who will willingly cheat the sytem and those who will not. There are all kinds of business models; some that promote quality of life and some that don’t. What that means is that we may be worked to the bone or supported to take care of ourselves as VIs and/or compensated fairly or unfairly
We (interpreters) continue to be painted as leeches (undeservingly paid well) and uncaring individuals as a whole. But I also know there are all kinds of perspectives and mindsets. Those who choose to make blanket, stereotypical statements that do not reflect well on the interpreting profession are obviously expressing themselves from personal experience and hearsay, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that is indeed the reality of the world we live in.
I am a trilingual interpreter. I was one of 2 VIs back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s providing ASL/Spanish VRS access for the entire nation. There are companies and individuals that will claim to be the pioneers of Spanish VRS… not quite true. 2 VIs working for CSD were.
At that time, access was limited to about 5 hours a day monday-friday only. My colleague and I sometimes would not log off until the 5 hour shift was over because we cared about providing continuous access to the deaf ASL/Spanish users. I was only being paid a differential of 0.50 cents for having Spanish as a 3rd language. If I were paid $75 an hour to provide trilingual services, I gaurantee you I would be worth every penny of it. Not only because of my interpreting skills, but because of how hard I work for the consumer and the minutes I process for the provider.
According to some professional philosophies we should have refused to provide the service until proper compensation was negotiated. We would otherwise be setting a precedence for poor compensation for the specialized services being provided. But, we also knew consumers depended on us, therefore we put aside our personal agendas to promote access for the deaf and hard of hearing needing trilingual VRS services. In the end, what I got out of it was the development of a call processing model and an empowering service delivery approach that is invaluable and insurmountable by any means. No amount of compensation can subtitute what I learn from processing calls for the ASL/Spanish users.
My point for telling the trilingual VRS story is to remind folks not to throw the baby out with the bath water. We are all guilty to a lesser or greater degree in regard to the issues within VRS and the world-wide problems we face today.
We must, however, strive to remain cohesive (united) in our efforts to improve service access in both community and telecommunications.
Interpreters… we must unite and be more active in our role within the VRS market. We have been lax for far too long on issues that truly matter.
I am working on a business model that I hope will replace the current one that I feel (professional opinion) has failed us time and time again. The current VRS business model requires that we work for a provider rather than for ourselves. You may maintain independent contractor status or be an employee with a VRS co. or a vendor, in either case, we are still at the mercy of the VRS provider. I want us to take control of our profession and actively help steer the future course of VRS provision. I am tinkering with the business model that Convergance Marketing and answering services use.
One of the main characteristics of a profession is the level of autonomy in which it functions, yet we have given up our autonomy to the providers. We are controlled and limited by non-compete clauses and proprietary information descriptions (we fall under intellectual property) therefore making us property of a provider during employment and in some cases for a certain period of time after the professional relationship dissolves.
If you (VIs) are interested in making change happen from our profession’s standpoint, please contact me at VIondemand@yahoo.com (Please, no spam or hate mail)
“I have a dream… ”
A genuine socially responsible company that functions to improve the quality of life of its employees, their families, and the community at large without compromising ethical conduct. A company that dares to be a beacon of hope for the rest of America/world.
Today’s struggling economy is not as a result of generosity and social responsibility, but of greed and exploitation. It is only a matter of time before the current insfrastructures as we know them crumble; I do not fear that day because it will reawaken our spirits towards a more gracious state of being rather than the self-serving individualistic society we have become.
Unfortunately, fault lies not only on the shoulders of greedy corporations and their CEOs, but in our overall politics and complicit societal values. We have allowed business philosophies geared towards profit for the few on the backs of many to saturate our economic infrastructure.
Let us not prolong the necessary and help steer the future course of VRS provision…
Gg
WOW…as a CODA I am shocked by your comment, Ridor, “just shut up and interpret”. I have worked all my life not to oppress deaf people and then you try to oppress interpreters with your comment. Would you like interpreter to tell you to shut up and pay attention? WOW…I am lucky I am interpreter for 30 years so that I can refuse to interpret for people like you. Would you like to pay my IRS debt and my taxes and my health insurance. I have to pay 100 percent of social security taxes because I am freelance. DO YOU PAY ANY TAXES OR DO YOU STAY HOME AND COLLECT MY 100 % social security taxes that I pay?
Your comment is very very hurtful to many of us skilled certified interpreters who work so hard to make sure OUR community has communication…shame on you for that.
Ridor,
I don’t know who hurt you or made you into the person you are, but I know you do not speak for the Deaf Community. The deaf community I know embraces those of us who worked hard to provide a better place for all us. Those of us whom have advocated for our clients above and beyond. Those of us who offered to work pro bono, those of us who went to our local dr’s offices and offered a discounted rates to make sure our deaf community was provided with service.
I to am a CODA, my dad died this year and he would be pained to see the comments you have made. I do pay my own taxes insurance etc. I do not get vacation pay or sick time. I spent money to go to interpreter training school even though I already knew how to sign. I wanted to make sure I provided the best I could to the community. I refused to work for agencies which over charged the consumers, by charging double and triple services. So exactly what are you angry at us for … doing our job…. I don’t know what your talking about stealing your information… according to you we are so rich and fat why would we need to do that. …when all is said and done, I can’t even collect unemployment so tell me again how I have leeched off the system
VI! I am all for it… will be contacting you.
Calm down! Ridor is being deliberately provocative. That is what he does. Doubt he could do anything else! And this is not a criticism. Just a statement of what I see is going on. There is a time and place to be provocative – unlike Ridor I think such times and places are limited while he thinks it is about all the time!
Labour (that’s how it is properly spelled!) and tax laws vary. Up here in Canada I doubt very much that any of the VI interpreters would get away with claiming to be independent contractors. Regardless of what the VRS company or the VI claims the tax people would say they are employees and would have to be treated as such. But with 50 states plus down there it is bound to vary quite a bit! VRS companies pay what they have to to keep interpreters working for them – the less they pay the more they profit. Like other businesses some of them probably emphasis the long run more and want to keep good connections with their employees and customers while others just want the bucks. Nothing new there! VIs can choose who to work for. Deafies can choose which VRS provider to use. Choose wisely and stop whining!
Henry
Why beat the crap out of the interpreters? I believe that they are just pawns in this ordeal even though they are involved. The real culprits are who is/was running the company. They (CEO, owners, upper management) are RESPONSIBLE for everything that happens within the company. They are the ones that make things happen. Interpreters are just pawns sitting in the sweat shops. For the interpreters, it is d@mn if you do or d@mn if you don’t.
VRS is a gift to all of us from the Government (We, The People). Basically, we are stealing from our own pockets.
Ridor, be grown up and give gentle and polite to the interpreters what you said. Better leave the interpreters’ nature even your sister is hearie. She is a VI. I wonder if you don’t care toward her like insulting to her sometimes in your life? As you usually grew up with your Deaf family, I often see them with big-head attitudes. Your habit is to give rude to whom you say to. You have no respect in your mind. Also, you are going “over the hill”. Please stop using bad words. Remember, hearies are sensitive and can offense you if they want to.
You image, Ridor can dare to say even to Deafies, too. They feel hurt or angry at him. People can watch him all the time for his behavior/his statement.
TerpUSA: Actually, I’d fire you before you could even decline … LOL. I did twice before with a couple of interpreters whom I warned ‘em that I fingerspell with my left hand, not right hand and they botched it twice and I had them removed immediately.
The point is that, an ideal interpreter is to interpret, period. They are not there to befriend anyone else in particular. That is my perspective. For example, when I visited a doctor’s office, I expect the interpreter to interpret everything possible but when the doctor’s visit is concluded, the interpreter should simply vanish. Often, they would try to chat afterward and I’d decline ‘em and told them to depart. Sometimes interpreter would attempt to advise me of their thoughts or even attempt to hijack the conversation by jumping in to make “suggestions” — that is not their place as an interpreter. They, to me, are there to interpret and *shut up*.
You mentioned, “Would you like interpreter to tell you to shut up and pay attention?”
Actually, many interpreters do that. They often do that to children in mainstreaming programs. They often tell that to students in community colleges/universities — I know many interpreters would say, “Watch me or I won’t interpret!”
Maybe you never did but many interpreters do these things like that. Hence is why I made it clear that they re there to interpret, that’s all they do. C’est la vie!
On other hand, I find it despicable that you would generalize and bash Deaf people about your so-called comment regarding paying taxes and social security — these things that you have in your mind regarding Deaf people are getting old and it has *no* place in interpreting world, period. If you have these generalizations about Deaf people at large, then you should get out of this profession!
Mm, you wrote: “I think that my main concern is if you dont trust us or think that we are over paid then why in gods name do you use us.”
The answer is simple — you WERE hired to be an interpreter — we are obligated to use you to interpret even though you’re being overpaid — trust or not — it is a matter within Deaf individuals which will take some *time* to rebuild the trust. I had a conversation with several Deaf people via VP today about how they felt regarding the VIs ratting out to FCC/FBI about the problems with VRS (but not the conversations itself) … they expressed that they cannot help but wonder if the VIs are capable of using OUR conversations against us sometimes in the future — all I’m saying is that they (and I) cannot help this if we feel like that, okay?
However, i would like to thank Gg and exVI for their comments. I learned something new today.
Keep rollin’!
R-
We just hit 100 comments. Due to some bug in the wordpress, I’m not able to close the comments. Folks, let’s stop this now – I think we’re done enough now ;-] Any more inflammatory remarks, i will now delete them.
eyes open & thumbs up…
Please knock off bashing interpreters and deaf/hoh. The point of this posting is to discuss the fraudulence of VRS companies and sub-contractors. Let’s proceed with intellectual discussion on this issue.
CK,
Thank you. Yes, let’s knock off that and get back to the core purpose of edsalert which CK hit right on nose (pardon the pun).
eyes open & thumbs up…
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